WEBVTT NOTE Timing normalized from supplied 23.976 fps timeline timecode. 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.007 I've been treated like a criminal oh I was six years old oh. 2 00:00:07.007 --> 00:00:11.720 (Music) 3 00:00:11.720 --> 00:01:28.797 With Mr. and Mrs. Marciano, where we talk about life, creative work and everything we are figuring out together. Today I'd like to talk about you've been told to think outside the box, until you do. Tell me Before we moved to America, what was the picture for you? What was the metaphor of America? You know I was dreaming of America since my childhood and apart from the claim like the land of free. For me maybe I would describe how I imagine this imagine Americans and for me I loved the Western stories, the Wild West stories. Those were the first books I was reading. 4 00:01:30.382 --> 00:02:24.644 As a little boy and I wanted to be a cowboy one day. So for me my idea about Americans was they are super brave people, obviously super smart as I learned over the time that America used to buy the smartest people from the world and super creative. I've been raised on black blues music mostly and on 60s. My father loved 60s. So for me, America and Americans it was a land of. 5 00:02:25.645 --> 00:02:41.953 People that are hard working harder than anyone else in this world to create a progress for mankind. That's how I saw America and Americans. 6 00:02:44.915 --> 00:04:18.550 Would it be too broad to ask if this idea matched the reality? It's a very good question because today's topic is about thinking outside the box. I never met a real cowboy yet so that's something on my to-do list and not just to meet cowboys but try the job one day like spend a week or so in a saddle. That's something I like to do to just fulfill the boy's dream. But to answer your question, speaking of the creativity and thinking outside the box for me it meant something like my expectations were that Americans are processing everything perfectly, the best in the world. But all those processes are questioned very often to be more efficient. And I worked for. 7 00:04:20.343 --> 00:04:42.824 Companies with headquarters in different countries so I've been lucky to experience different working cultures as we were not talk about work for a while. As I mentioned in the first episode I worked for a Japanese company, I worked for a German company,. 8 00:04:44.534 --> 00:04:53.335 I worked for an American company for a long period of time and. 9 00:04:55.879 --> 00:05:09.518 I felt that something's not entirely aligned with my idea at the moment when as a manager. 10 00:05:10.894 --> 00:05:30.247 I received an email about future layoff and I received word by word what I have to say to each person if there's a person in my team to be laid off and I was like. 11 00:05:32.582 --> 00:05:36.753 "okay it's a process I will follow obviously" 12 00:05:39.214 --> 00:06:15.500 The question is can I read it at least or do I need to memorize it word by word what to say how to say and at this moment I was like I felt like a robot and as this management layers slowly being erased from corporations in America I'm not surprised if you have a script for every situation. So going back to answer your question. 13 00:06:18.295 --> 00:06:46.489 For me America was like a big surprise and I was aware about the processes and that's something that I really admire if you have a company you have processes everyone follows it's a great working machine and that's that's great the question is where's any space for creativity and thinking outside the box. 14 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:56.708 And as I mentioned I work for different companies with different culture I never met. 15 00:06:58.501 --> 00:07:24.319 I never experienced like every company is claiming I think that regarding some studies like 90% of companies are claiming that one of the core values is originality and creativity and actually thinking outside a box yeah and and I never experience. 16 00:07:26.154 --> 00:07:30.617 That it would be welcome actually yes okay okay. 17 00:07:35.121 --> 00:07:42.671 Let's say on a level that's really outside the box I think that's in my experience. 18 00:07:43.797 --> 00:08:02.941 You can be creative within the box okay and everyone you know I had a startup 15 years ago everyone wanted to be Steve Jobs back then and everyone was like wanted to think different. 19 00:08:04.192 --> 00:08:13.576 And speaking of I'm not saying that you cannot be different or think outside the box in America. 20 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:23.712 You can if you have but it's been accepted when you succeed. 21 00:08:24.796 --> 00:08:49.112 Afterwards like retrospectively uh-huh yeah and that's something really interesting for me with my life behind with my resume if I would try to go to an interview here in America. 22 00:08:51.781 --> 00:09:26.524 I might not to be even interviewed as I haven't followed the usual path in the industry to get to the role I had at the end of my career in the industry so in general it's like being an senior engineer principal engineer switch to being a team leader and afterwards we're manager senior manager director and so and my path was different that means. 23 00:09:29.235 --> 00:09:59.265 It might look like who the guy is and it's the same with my music I love to listen to solo rock but I love to listen to opera I love to listen to pop I love to listen to the country if I'm in a mood for it right so if you ask me which box is there for me speaking of the genre speaking of the. 24 00:10:00.266 --> 00:10:01.810 Everything related to me. 25 00:10:04.104 --> 00:10:23.540 I'm the troublemaker because I've never been in one box for a long period of time yeah and I've experienced that as a as a child in a first grade when I clearly learned. 26 00:10:26.417 --> 00:10:35.969 That the system we live in means the kindergarten, preschool, school job for life. 27 00:10:38.054 --> 00:10:45.144 Maybe need someone else than I am I was taught that. 28 00:10:46.771 --> 00:10:50.942 I can give you real example I was six years old yeah. 29 00:10:53.736 --> 00:10:55.780 And. 30 00:10:57.157 --> 00:10:59.409 It was a class. 31 00:11:00.785 --> 00:11:39.282 Art class and I was drawing some kind of picture and we like used the paper and everything yeah and one moment I like connecting it somehow and I paint something on the wall as well uh-huh and back then it was a huge issue it was like I was destroying the property of the school yes definitely and I've been I've been treated like a criminal oh I was six years old oh so sorry and my parents. 32 00:11:41.910 --> 00:11:58.593 Had some some tough times because of me yes and they actually they really like my mom my mom was like afraid that if I'm even a normal person or whatever because I. 33 00:12:00.220 --> 00:12:01.095 Never. 34 00:12:02.096 --> 00:12:10.104 100 percent the order yes yeah I was trying to find my own way. 35 00:12:11.648 --> 00:12:20.531 All my life and I found my way it's and I know it's different than the way of all people I know. 36 00:12:23.868 --> 00:12:38.967 And I've learned that there are one single path of your career or yeah it's starting actually it's starting pretty early because of the school university. 37 00:12:40.802 --> 00:12:48.559 The work the job afterwards that the most of people or my ex-colleagues were like. 38 00:12:49.936 --> 00:12:51.396 Going to the university. 39 00:12:53.439 --> 00:13:17.088 Afterwards studying the job as developers and moving forward with their career and that's how the society works because it's somehow convenient and I might be a little bit jealous that I cannot imagine having this kind of life for me I never got the choice I've been just different. 40 00:13:19.340 --> 00:13:28.599 And what I learned as a child that the society the system just doesn't like it it's inconvenient. 41 00:13:30.143 --> 00:13:44.115 It's I'm not saying that I'm better not at all I'm just different I think differently I'm not super I'm not super creative to create a new. 42 00:13:45.700 --> 00:14:04.302 Medicine to cure cancer or anything like that and that's might be the issue if I might maybe if I uh discovered something huge yeah afterwards I might be I might be. 43 00:14:05.470 --> 00:14:17.398 Finally taken like okay you can think differently that's okay yeah I'm I'm 100% sure I'm not the only one what about you. 44 00:14:20.526 --> 00:14:23.279 As you mentioned the school I remember there were. 45 00:14:24.906 --> 00:15:23.506 I was not trying to be different or I was not really I was different in some ways like but not in a creative way let's say but I remember there was a in the third grade there was a class we studied the nature of the trees and stuff and I remember there was a test and I prepared for the test and we were supposed to draw some kind of a leaf based on like the category or description and I knew that how the leaf looks like I'm supposed to draw it and I was like but everyone in a class is gonna draw this one leaf so I was like okay I know those types of leaves I know the categories so I understand the difference between those categories if I draw within the category just some leaf that is different than was painted. 46 00:15:24.882 --> 00:15:32.265 In a book I would still be in a category so it should be good so I draw different type of leaf. 47 00:15:33.891 --> 00:15:48.865 And I got C from the test I remember I was so sad for me it was it was considered that I didn't know the right answer even though I knew I just I just didn't want to do the same like everyone else. 48 00:15:49.907 --> 00:17:09.487 So I understood it and I and I remember when I talked to my parents afterwards and I explained them what happened my mom was like okay next time just draw what what was in a book and um and that they hurt they hurt me like I was like I I knew the right answer like I I you know to be punished for something that you are thinking somehow more or some I'm not saying that I was like smarter or whatever but um you asked me I was yeah to to to be punished for just because you were thinking differently yeah that was bad actually I think it's way safer having everyone doing the same thing on the same level for the society if you want to govern the society and it's more convenient even for convenient for the teacher because you have one test you have one result and you don't need to think okay what if the child was thinking you know it's um and why not at the end of the day yeah I know I get it yeah why not the fact is that something got better but. 49 00:17:10.947 --> 00:17:52.989 In general the society is still the same history is still the same who reads the history see the parallels when you were talking I was thinking like what about Steve Jobs as I mentioned imagine that Steve Jobs would bring the first iPhone like not as a final product um but as a proof of concept and started to test it among users. 50 00:17:54.949 --> 00:18:19.515 And I'm not sure if he could even release the product version like the yeah the final version of the product later on because he saw the idea he created the idea of what what the purpose should he was not just the the phone he was selling I remember when I had my own startup. 51 00:18:20.975 --> 00:19:00.514 And I was on a wave of one startup but I really like there was a hype and we all like wanted to be the same to change the world to something better to bring something new to fight the corporations to bring more progress to mankind and make money on that so it looked like okay there's a great space for thinking outside the box and it's. 52 00:19:02.641 --> 00:19:08.981 It's requested by the investors the angels see the investors and. 53 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:21.952 However I still think that it was inside the box of outside of the box thinking means. 54 00:19:23.454 --> 00:19:48.020 The real creativity and the real thinking outside the box is must be every time dangerous and extremely inconvenient for the society because even in the era of startups. 55 00:19:49.146 --> 00:20:04.370 There were some kind of clear rules that you need to follow I'm not talking about the theory of chaos or that we should all of us should be anarchists maybe we should. 56 00:20:07.123 --> 00:20:24.432 We just cannot imagine how the world would look like we've been taught that it would be disaster and and the entire damage of the world if people are having the real freedom. 57 00:20:28.144 --> 00:20:32.815 So thinking out of the box as I worked for corporations. 58 00:20:37.445 --> 00:20:45.494 We as a society that's my personal concern we get more and more aligned. 59 00:20:48.497 --> 00:21:54.021 And space for creativity in terms of the extra let's call it extreme creativity like out of really outside the box unrecognizable yes almost like for so I think that creativity within the box is highly appreciated yeah yeah and speaking of the companies I think I saw a study that said that yeah the companies are claiming the creativity and and originality like the core value but just 25 percent of employees were thinking they are being heard in a job like they can really share that they've been heard okay being heard and they can share their opinions and and which is quite a huge discrepancy for me and we might all of us we know that it's the best. 60 00:21:55.481 --> 00:21:59.819 Things that happen to society over over the history. 61 00:22:03.781 --> 00:22:23.509 Are based on originality and creative minds however we all or we as a society my value more the feeling or having the idea of the creativity outside the box. 62 00:22:24.718 --> 00:22:27.221 Like to admire just the idea but. 63 00:22:29.139 --> 00:22:34.562 Maybe at the end of the day it never been welcome. 64 00:22:36.897 --> 00:23:22.735 Really easy to america and and thinking um outside the box um I feel like there are thousands and thousands of options of boxes and in some ways really beneficial to have everything described from the top to the bottom like every step and everything is so perfectly covered like for example with a therapy and a psychologist they they compare to europe here the process the the like. 65 00:23:25.070 --> 00:23:46.383 You can talk just 30 minutes with the therapist and he is just checking the boxes like okay this not again some kind of assignment yeah and yeah and it's super efficient it's extremely yeah I've never met someone who can know me within 30 minutes to know who I am yeah it was kind of scary yeah. 66 00:23:48.385 --> 00:24:52.241 So they might they must be some kind of book but speaking of my case but afterwards it was like coming to me and after the therapy like we didn't say at the beginning I was thinking you had to lie during the test and whatever but you didn't I said yes I'm not lying but but it was unusual yeah it was my results were yes but it was yeah it was fun yeah yeah so in in ways this is extremely helpful like if you need yeah for example psychology like or or medical things all like things that where there are tons of information and you need to be able to sort out it's extremely beneficial it's not chaotic like here I don't feel there is a chaos everyone knows. 67 00:24:53.325 --> 00:25:16.974 What to do but on the other hand as you mentioned the the question to like if it's actually welcome to ask questions in the environment which I think is extremely important to ask questions because then you can find something that there are some steps that or a step that actually can be. 68 00:25:18.350 --> 00:25:25.858 Done in better way or skipped or or you can modify it somehow and improve it because. 69 00:25:26.900 --> 00:26:42.559 In companies there these rules are set and not changing that much so you know asking questions and came up with ideas it's always it should be beneficial but I feel like as you said it's it's not really welcomed to because of course it depends on what work like what job you have but um but when you when you're reporting to to your manager or someone above and you have some ideas or questions that could relate another thing is politics and then they will feel like your threat that's your smart moment you fret and and they don't want to listen any of that because it's for them it seems like oh no you should this is just follow the process so we don't need to deal with you that's exactly the point yeah so I think that think thinking outside a box is great when you have your own business I hope so. 70 00:26:45.312 --> 00:27:13.882 You remind me something or something popped in my mind like when you're talking about manager of your manager and like if you are a real creative soul and if you are so far that you really think outside a box you are you've been evaluated by people that do not think outside the box. 71 00:27:16.385 --> 00:27:20.139 So what it means how it looks and that's. 72 00:27:22.474 --> 00:27:50.794 That's someone you who cannot understand and who might not be capable to evaluate your idea your way of thinking is the decision maker at the end of the day right do you feel like in America after all um is more welcome to think outside a box compared to Europe. 73 00:27:53.922 --> 00:27:55.757 It's a great question hmm. 74 00:27:59.261 --> 00:28:05.809 I would need to say that there's one huge surprise for me in America. 75 00:28:07.477 --> 00:28:11.356 How safety is important for Americans. 76 00:28:14.067 --> 00:28:28.874 Well any any blame I like for me it was a real real surprise culture shock the culture shock yeah let's be clear as we used to walk a lot and we walked. 77 00:28:30.125 --> 00:28:39.009 And because there was no sidewalk we walk on a along the road along the road in a countryside. 78 00:28:40.552 --> 00:29:01.365 And neighbors of ours stopped and told us you need to wear the vest and you shouldn't walk here anymore anywhere because it's dangerous yeah for your safety and it was a bright day yeah. 79 00:29:02.866 --> 00:29:47.244 Yeah really long road with really in a really quiet area so yeah like one you can meet three cars they're passing yeah so something that in Europe is super safe yeah anyway but here I was so shocked that she was reversing the neighbor was even reversing yeah to warn you yeah to help us understand that we are not safe in this world and. 80 00:29:49.746 --> 00:29:52.207 It's been I think over a year. 81 00:29:54.543 --> 00:29:58.964 And I'm still shocked I'm still shocked because. 82 00:30:02.217 --> 00:30:38.462 Safety is important but it should not limit your freedom and I don't mean like freedom is really broad word and it's hard to um I don't mean that the freedom should affect safety of anyone else like your actions should not affect someone else's safety but to have rules and to be limited to prevent anything to happen. 83 00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:51.350 Um I don't know how much freedom would you have in this world if you would everything was adjusted just to keep you safe. 84 00:30:53.769 --> 00:30:57.773 That's a whole would wrap it up today okay. 85 00:31:00.150 --> 00:31:07.574 What's your preference creativity or keeping everything clear ahead. 86 00:31:09.534 --> 00:31:13.288 Thank you for listening today thank you take care.